The Not-So-Cagey Vets

How about a little point-counterpoint to DM’s column yesterday on the Cagey Vets?  Here are a couple of guys who were, as of a year or two ago, were fantasy gold, and now?  Not so much…

Andrei Kirilenko
Right now I’m looking at the game log for the New Jersey/Utah game and the last thing reported was “P. Millsap enters game for A. Kirilenko.”  It’s like two ships passing in the night.  For the last two years, Kirilenko - while an injury risk - was one of the most coveted fantasy players in the land, a blocks dynamo who contributed a little bit of everything.  Now, it’s a different story.  His numbers are significantly down across the board, and he seems…well…disinterested?  Well, whatever it is, it’s not resulting in fantasy value.  But before we start trashing AK, let’s think about something.  Here’s the Jazz’s leading minutes getters from this year and from 2003-2004, when Kirilenko had his best fantasy year:

‘03-’04: Kirilenko, Greg Ostertag, Carlos Arroyo, Raja Bell, Jarron Collins, Deshawn Stevenson.
‘06-’07: Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur, Kirilenko, Derek Fisher, Matt Harpring.

Here’s the point - since ‘03-’04, the Jazz have upgraded their rotation at just about every position.  Could it be that Kirilenko is the same player he’s always been, it’s just that the talent around him demands the ball that much more?  Think back even to last year, when Boozer missed 39 games, Williams struggled at times as a rookie, and Gordan Giricek, Jarron Collins, Devin Brown and Keith McLeod all played major roles.  This year things have changed so significantly around him that Kirilenko may just be lost in his lineup.  Furthermore, if I can’t figure out a way to work Jerry Sloan and the “I didn’t even have to use my AK” line from Ice Cube’s “Good Day” together into this column, I guess it’s just never going to happen.

Mike Bibby
This one, well, ya got me.  How long can a slump last?  Bibby didn’t play great last year but the complete collapse he’s suffered this season is just confusing.  He got on a roll there right around New Year’s, but since then he’s reverted back into his poor shooting habits.  The plus side for Bibby is that it seems that it’s only his shooting that’s been a problem - his other numbers are right around his career averages.  The minus side is that, unlike with Kirilenko, I can’t find something here where I say, “well, in retrospect, I can see how this would happen.”  Maybe - MAYBE - I can blame this on the wrist problems.  But, for this long?  We’ll have to see.  I wouldn’t be surprised if after the year, we see a report that says something along the lines of, “Mike Bibby says that his wrist bothered him throughout the year and that he will need to rest it in the offseason.”  Can we say, “possible sleeper next year?”

Larry Hughes
If there’s one guy that we are big fans of here at FBB, it’s Ernie Grunfeld, GM of our beloved Washington Wizards.  Just like in fantasy basketball, sometimes it’s the deals you DON’T make that make you a great GM, and Hughes is a great example of that (Jared Jefferies would be an even better example).  Two years removed from a career year in Washington, Hughes had one mulligan last year as he suffered through an injury and some personal problems, but this season he’s out of excuses.  Yes, he’s dealt with some injuries but nothing extreme, and he’s still seeing 36 mpg.  Hughes was a popular mid-round pick this year but is just 110 or the APR, and he’s obviously not a favorite of head coach Mike Brown, who has tinkered with starting lineups throughout the year.  Obviously, the 2.9 steals from ‘04-’05 were a major anomaly, as were the 22 points, and Hughes has faded into a late-round pick at this point.

01
January 30th, 2007 12:14 pm

AK has become Quinton Ross! He expends lots of energy on the defensive end and is not included in the offense of Jerry Sloan. He’s lost his ability to fit in, probably because he is pressing offensively, and so his shooting is less effective as well. It is sad to see. Your speculation that he is surrounded by more talented players this year makes a lot of sense. Still, were I Jerry Sloan I would find a way to get AK’s groove back on, because now his defensive numbers are going down as well.

02
Terrance
January 30th, 2007 12:24 pm

just traded hinrich for carmelo. just wanted some reaction to the trade.

also looking to trade

dwight howard and kevin martin/joe johnson

for

boozer and iguadola

any opinions on this deal?

heres my roster:

PG Raymond Felton
SG Ricky Davis
G Joe Johnson
SF Kevin Garnett
PF David West
F Carmelo Anthony
C Dwight Howard
C Alonzo Mourning
Util Kevin Martin
Util Mo Williams
BN Josh Childress
BN Jameer Nelson
BN Hedo Turkoglu

03
Andy
January 30th, 2007 1:41 pm

I like Hinrich for Carmelo. Williams is back and looks great, so you have decent depth at PG (assuming JJ is eligible in your league) and ‘Melo is clearly the better fantasy player, even with Iverson around.

Getting Iguodala and Boozer for Howard & Martin/Johnson would be a no-brainer (IMO) if Boozer were healthy (unless you are desparate for blocks, Boozer is FAR more valuable than Howard due to his scoring and FG% prowess and Howard’s completely horrific FT%, and the other guys would be pretty close to a wash) but there is basically no news on that front right now which is concerning. Depending on your standings in the league, it might still be worth rolling the dice to get Boozer, but I’d factor in the possibility of him missing some time.

04
CBass
January 30th, 2007 1:44 pm

Hinrich for Carmelo? Sometimes I just can’t believe some of the trades I hear in other leagues. Does the former Carmelo owner know anything about basketball? Those 2 players are not in each other’s league, and this coming from a Hinrich owner. Terrance, can I be in your league next year? :) (Seriously…)

As for that other trade, does Kevin Martin/Joe Johnson mean Martin OR Johnson? Dude, Kevin Martin and Joe Johnson are not on the same caliber. Not even close, really. That will become clear as the season progresses, but I think it’s already pretty blatant, especially as Johnson is breaking out of his current slump.

What do you guys think of offering Hinrich and Bibby for Chris Paul? I’m guard heavy in a 12-team h2h league.

05
CBass
January 30th, 2007 1:47 pm

Also, I’m thinking of offering Brand and Joe Johnson for Vince Carter and Lamar Odom…what do you think?

06
Terrance
January 30th, 2007 2:05 pm

yes, it meant martin or johnson.

well martin is higher on the player rater than joe johnson. im hoping he takes the martin side of the deal.

the league has a core of 10 that has been together for 4 seasons and theres a $20 entry fee to make it interesting. 12 team h2h. of those 10, i know 6 personally the others are from yahoo winners leagues and the yahoo top 50 board. im the commish, they mail their money to me and i dish it out at the end of the season.

anyways, id want teh brand and joe johnson side of the deal! im big on both of them and i never have like odoms game much. blasphemy, im sure.

id keep hinrich and bibby, for some reason i still think bibby will turn it around. it makes no sense for his game to take such a substantial fall due to a wrist injury. i think it has more to do more with all the talent that has left sacto lately. maybe bibby got more open looks due to doubles on cwebb and peja. you had to worry about brad miller hitting the baseline runner or the interior passing of the kings which would collapse a defense and youd kick it out to bibby for his money of an eightteen footer. but id still take hinrich and bibby, nice track records and solid steady #’s

07
Terrance
January 30th, 2007 2:08 pm

in the last post, by baseline runner, i meant the player running the baseline or finding the gap in the defense on the baseline. NOT a running jumpshot. sorry

08
Sam
January 30th, 2007 3:48 pm

Any chance Eddie Jones continues where he left off in Memphis if he joins the Heat?

09
January 30th, 2007 4:24 pm

Yo dudes, what are your thoughts on Chauncey Billups? Ever since C-Webb came to town, Mr. Big Shot’s been averaging ~6 assists a game and the trend is continuing.

Is Billups simply still recovering from his calf strain or is Webber really eating up the assists? 6 games and counting, Billups is at 5.8 APG in January, incidentally the same month when Webber became a Piston.

10
Andy
January 30th, 2007 6:07 pm

CBass: It depends on your WW, but in a 12-team league I might be inclined to hold onto Hinrich/Bibby. Paul could be spectacular but we don’t know how his injury will affect his play, and you’d be giving up two pretty valuable commodities in a deep league. Also, I’d rather have the Brand side of the other trade - I like Odom and VC bu Elton is the is the best player in the deal and you would hate to lose his blocks and FG%.

Sam: Eddie Jones will certainly get more consistent minutes in Miami. I don’t think he’ll keep playing at a high level, but he’s still an asset in threes and steals so he’s probably an option in deep leagues.

Jago: I wouldn’t worry at all about Chauncey. As I type this, he has 6 assists through the 2nd quarter tonight (on 17 Pistons baskets). Even if his per-game average does dip slightly, he’ll still stay in the top 15 in the league.
More importantly, remember that assists alone certainly aren’t his only source of value. Don’t forget he is usually a monster at the free throw line, hits quite a few threes, helps in points and steals, and keeps his TOs relatively low for a PG.

11
Tim
January 30th, 2007 7:30 pm

Here is my team right now (shield your eyes for a truely horific injury plagued team

Injured:

Paul
Redd
Yao
Boozer

On team

Roy
Smoosh
Felton
C. BUtler
A. Miller
D. West
A. Mourning
A. Jefferson
T. Prince

I am thinking of dropping Roy to pick up Milisap in case boozer is long term… I know Roy is good but I am basically waiting for my team to get healthy and make the push for number 1 - I am in 2nd now…

Seriously my team would be stupid good if everyone was not injured.

ANy help…

12
bv
January 30th, 2007 8:32 pm

jago, i’ll discuss billups tomorrow so hold tight

tim, i’d drop smush before i dropped roy, for sure. paul should be back in a game or two so just sit tight.

13
DM
January 30th, 2007 8:40 pm

Man, I really put the whammy on those guys I talked about in my column yesterday. Miller and Hamilton have some of their worst games of the season and our boy Antawn looks to be out for a few weeks at least. Major bummer.

14
Terrance
January 30th, 2007 10:54 pm

i made another trade, this one is def a little more sketchy. im tired or dwight howard, his FT was killing me. i traded FOR yao ming, opinions?

i got Chris Paul and Yao Ming

for

Kevin Martin and Dwight Howard

i think this is a good deal for me and makes my lineup look sharp, i ran mynew lineup through basketball monster and my team is def more improved. im currently in 6th (10 games back in h2h league)

PG Raymond Felton
SG Ricky Davis
G Joe Johnson
SF Kevin Garnett
PF David West
F Carmelo Anthony
C Yao Ming
C Alonzo Mourning
Util Chris Paul
Util Mo Williams
BN Josh Childress
BN Jameer Nelson
BN Hedo Turkoglu

Q: do i dish mo williams for someone like al harrington who is C eligible or someone like brad miller (who i dont like much right now, but is C eligible) or boris diaw?

i hope yao is back by the end of march, would be a great boost to my team, but this is a huge risk on my part to do this trade, but i didnt want howard anymore.

thanks for any help.

15
Tim
January 31st, 2007 5:51 am

sorry my team has J. Smith not Smush… I just typed the nickname wrong..
So at least my team is better right….

16
May 17th, 2007 4:07 am

Cool.

17
May 20th, 2007 9:42 am

Cool.

18
May 21st, 2007 12:37 pm

Cool…

19
May 22nd, 2007 2:01 am

Nice

20
June 8th, 2007 11:39 pm

Nice

21
June 10th, 2007 3:36 pm

Nice…

22
June 12th, 2007 8:47 pm

Interesting…

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